I was passed on the following link by a correspondent:
Indians invented planes 7,000 years ago — and other startling claims at the Science Congress, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/04/indians-invented-planes-7000-years-ago-and-other-startling-claims-at-the-science-congress/
Here's another related link: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/at-science-congress-vedic-aeroplanes-and-virus-proof-suits/. An extract from it:
The abstract of the Bodas-Jadhav paper says: “Aviation technology in ancient India is not a tale of mythology, but it is a total historical document giving technical details and specifications. Ancient Sanskrit literature is full of descriptions of flying machines, Vimanas.
“From the many documents found, it is evident that the scientist-sages Agastya and Bharadwaja had developed the lore of aircraft construction. Aeronautics or Vaimaanikashastra is a part of Yantra Sarvasva of Bharadwaja. This is also known as Brihadvimaana Shastra. Vaimaanikashastra deals with aeronautics, including the design of aircraft, the way they can be used for transportation and other applications, in detail.”
--- end indianexpress.com article extract ---
My two bits :-).
If the presenter was so sure of his claim why did he not make a prototype of such a plane using the Hindu scripture he quotes, and demonstrate that prototype at the science congress. Without such a working prototype/model, it seems to me that the "technical details and specifications" provided in the referenced Hindu scripture, is not scientifically validated.
It is a different matter for somebody to have belief in such Hindu scripture - that is belief not science. [BTW I should also mention that I believe that at least some of the accounts in Hindu scripture of flying vehicles (e.g. Pushpak Vimana in Ramayana) and sacred-mantra-powered weapons of phenomenal destructive power (e.g. Brahmastra), are true. But that is my belief (based on revelations from my spiritual master). I cannot expect science to accept such Hindu scripture as scientific evidence of the existence of these ancient technological feats.]
About Narendra Modi believing in Ganesha (elephant headed God) and mentioning that in a non-science meet: in my view, that is his personal belief and he is entitled to it even if he is PM. But he should not mention such things in a science meet where he is an honoured guest or give them as directions to Indian scientists. [BTW I think Modi's opening address at the science congress was quite non-controversial.] Anything that is mentioned in a science congress, even by a politician-minister, should be in line with science.
About Harsh Vardhan's (Indian science minister's) claim regarding India having discovered the Pythagorean theorem before the Greeks, it seems that there may be some basis to it. See what Shashi Tharoor has written in support of Vardhan's claim: http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/now-congress-shashi-tharoor-supports-bjps-harsh-vardhan-over-ancient-indias-claim-to-algebra-pythagoras-theorem/25951/. I guess for this matter, if Hindu scripture does have that theorem or equivalent in some shlokas (verses), and the scripture can be dated to before Pythagoras, then there will be ground for making such a claim. But as I don't know the details I can't take a definite stand on this.
--- end two bits ---
A (USA based) correspondent responded (and was OK with me sharing the response publicly):
Mixing science, religion, politics, and nationalism is not good. I read about Pythagoras and algebra. It is well known and consistently acknowledged that the early inspiration to mathematics came to the Greeks from the East - both Sumeria and Egypt (are) mentioned. The Greeks, however, didn't just stick to formulas (that worked), but developed the proof and a systematic approach to proving things. That's the key to science. That, and the "discovery" of the experiment by Galileo are key foundations of the modern world.
--- end correspondent response ---
I wrote back to the correspondent:
I think some Indians (and few non-Indians too) are of the view that Sumeria, Egypt etc. got it from India!
A correspondent shared the St. Andrews University Scotland, History of Mathematics link, http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Projects/Pearce/Chapters/Ch4_2.html. An extract from it:
The later Sulba-sutras represent the 'traditional' material along with further related elaboration of Vedic mathematics. The Sulba-sutras have been dated from around 800-200 BC, and further to the expansion of topics in the Vedangas, contain a number of significant developments.
These include first 'use' of irrational numbers, quadratic equations of the form a x2 = c and ax2 + bx = c, unarguable evidence of the use of Pythagoras theorem and Pythagorean triples, predating Pythagoras (c 572 - 497 BC), and evidence of a number of geometrical proofs. This is of great interest as proof is a concept thought to be completely lacking in Indian mathematics.
--- end extract and response to correspondent ---
The correspondent wrote back:
Quite possible, but I have no knowledge about that and neither did the Greeks (as far as I know). [Ravi: 'that' meaning Sumeria, Egypt etc. getting early inspiration for mathematics from India.]
There is also the possibility of independent invention and of discoveries that (were) never transmitted to future generations or other cultures.
Discoveries that are not shared become sterile.
--- end correspondent response extract ---
I think this article, Neglect of knowledge traditions, http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-openpage/neglect-of-knowledge-traditions/article6752699.ece, dated Jan. 4th 2015 by Michel Danino, author of books on ancient India and a guest professor at Indian Institute of Technology Gandhinagar, seems to be quite a balanced one on ancient Indian knowledge traditions (safer phrase than science as the word science today means something pretty different from simply knowledge).
Indians invented planes 7,000 years ago — and other startling claims at the Science Congress, http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/04/indians-invented-planes-7000-years-ago-and-other-startling-claims-at-the-science-congress/
Here's another related link: http://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/at-science-congress-vedic-aeroplanes-and-virus-proof-suits/. An extract from it:
The abstract of the Bodas-Jadhav paper says: “Aviation technology in ancient India is not a tale of mythology, but it is a total historical document giving technical details and specifications. Ancient Sanskrit literature is full of descriptions of flying machines, Vimanas.
“From the many documents found, it is evident that the scientist-sages Agastya and Bharadwaja had developed the lore of aircraft construction. Aeronautics or Vaimaanikashastra is a part of Yantra Sarvasva of Bharadwaja. This is also known as Brihadvimaana Shastra. Vaimaanikashastra deals with aeronautics, including the design of aircraft, the way they can be used for transportation and other applications, in detail.”
--- end indianexpress.com article extract ---
My two bits :-).
If the presenter was so sure of his claim why did he not make a prototype of such a plane using the Hindu scripture he quotes, and demonstrate that prototype at the science congress. Without such a working prototype/model, it seems to me that the "technical details and specifications" provided in the referenced Hindu scripture, is not scientifically validated.
It is a different matter for somebody to have belief in such Hindu scripture - that is belief not science. [BTW I should also mention that I believe that at least some of the accounts in Hindu scripture of flying vehicles (e.g. Pushpak Vimana in Ramayana) and sacred-mantra-powered weapons of phenomenal destructive power (e.g. Brahmastra), are true. But that is my belief (based on revelations from my spiritual master). I cannot expect science to accept such Hindu scripture as scientific evidence of the existence of these ancient technological feats.]
About Narendra Modi believing in Ganesha (elephant headed God) and mentioning that in a non-science meet: in my view, that is his personal belief and he is entitled to it even if he is PM. But he should not mention such things in a science meet where he is an honoured guest or give them as directions to Indian scientists. [BTW I think Modi's opening address at the science congress was quite non-controversial.] Anything that is mentioned in a science congress, even by a politician-minister, should be in line with science.
About Harsh Vardhan's (Indian science minister's) claim regarding India having discovered the Pythagorean theorem before the Greeks, it seems that there may be some basis to it. See what Shashi Tharoor has written in support of Vardhan's claim: http://www.financialexpress.com/article/miscellaneous/now-congress-shashi-tharoor-supports-bjps-harsh-vardhan-over-ancient-indias-claim-to-algebra-pythagoras-theorem/25951/. I guess for this matter, if Hindu scripture does have that theorem or equivalent in some shlokas (verses), and the scripture can be dated to before Pythagoras, then there will be ground for making such a claim. But as I don't know the details I can't take a definite stand on this.
--- end two bits ---
A (USA based) correspondent responded (and was OK with me sharing the response publicly):
Mixing science, religion, politics, and nationalism is not good. I read about Pythagoras and algebra. It is well known and consistently acknowledged that the early inspiration to mathematics came to the Greeks from the East - both Sumeria and Egypt (are) mentioned. The Greeks, however, didn't just stick to formulas (that worked), but developed the proof and a systematic approach to proving things. That's the key to science. That, and the "discovery" of the experiment by Galileo are key foundations of the modern world.
--- end correspondent response ---
I wrote back to the correspondent:
I think some Indians (and few non-Indians too) are of the view that Sumeria, Egypt etc. got it from India!
A correspondent shared the St. Andrews University Scotland, History of Mathematics link, http://www-history.mcs.st-andrews.ac.uk/Projects/Pearce/Chapters/Ch4_2.html. An extract from it:
The later Sulba-sutras represent the 'traditional' material along with further related elaboration of Vedic mathematics. The Sulba-sutras have been dated from around 800-200 BC, and further to the expansion of topics in the Vedangas, contain a number of significant developments.
These include first 'use' of irrational numbers, quadratic equations of the form a x2 = c and ax2 + bx = c, unarguable evidence of the use of Pythagoras theorem and Pythagorean triples, predating Pythagoras (c 572 - 497 BC), and evidence of a number of geometrical proofs. This is of great interest as proof is a concept thought to be completely lacking in Indian mathematics.
--- end extract and response to correspondent ---
The correspondent wrote back:
Quite possible, but I have no knowledge about that and neither did the Greeks (as far as I know). [Ravi: 'that' meaning Sumeria, Egypt etc. getting early inspiration for mathematics from India.]
There is also the possibility of independent invention and of discoveries that (were) never transmitted to future generations or other cultures.
Discoveries that are not shared become sterile.
--- end correspondent response extract ---
I think this article, Neglect of knowledge traditions, http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-features/tp-openpage/neglect-of-knowledge-traditions/article6752699.ece, dated Jan. 4th 2015 by Michel Danino, author of books on ancient India and a guest professor at Indian Institute of Technology Gandhinagar, seems to be quite a balanced one on ancient Indian knowledge traditions (safer phrase than science as the word science today means something pretty different from simply knowledge).
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